AC in middle of pack for reward seat availability

Discussion in 'Air Canada | Aeroplan' started by guinnessxyz, May 10, 2013.  |  Print Topic

  1. http://www.frequentflier.com/blog/and-the-award-for-best-award-seat-availability-goes-to/

    I think this survey is a load of horse manure as it doesn't record all seats sold by Aeroplan. They sell plenty both on line and by telephone. Also since Aeroplan is arms length to AC any seats sold by them on other *A carriers are not counted but probably are on other *A carriers.

    AC has no blackouts but it does have cut offs depending on status for high seasons. If you are not SE and booking for Christmas you could be severely limited as to choice.
     
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  2. Stephan

    Stephan Silver Member

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    What does it matter since SE's always get their choice and upgrades as you mention all the time? Isn't that what matters to AC now? Proof that they know what they are doing with business FFers and all that...
     
  3. In any business the best customers always get a little better treatment, as they should for spending more, and that is true in the airline business right across the board, not just AC. What matters to AC is making a profit and that requires a lot of decisions in a low margin business. Maybe the fact I started flying in an era when one paid for every flight and every seat upgrade colors my judgement. I do like the fact AC treats me like a good customer when I fly around 130 to 150K miles a year and I'm only mid level when it comes to average miles flown by all SE's.

    How many SM's do you fly with AC?
     
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  4. Wandering Aramean
    Original Member

    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    :confused: I don't understand what this means in the context of available award seats. The survey is certainly flawed but it isn't clear what the partners reference means here.

    I bet that's not true. The number flying just ~100K is going to be much higher than those flying 200K+ I'd bet.
     
  5. Not what I was told but put your money up and we'll see who is correct. ;) And, not to take your money too easily these numbers were given to me by knowledgable people at Aeroplan.
     
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  6. Stephan

    Stephan Silver Member

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    Well that is the point isn't it? AC is banking on you and the kettles at the other end of the spectrum to keep them afloat. I'm sure your company has a nicely negotiated package, but how many SE's does it take to bankroll a profitable airline? I don't begrudge you the perks for that kind of mileage, since I certainly don't travel that much, but surely the margin is with those in the middle of the pack. There are a whole lot more of those. What is AC doing these days to attract them? Premium economy?
     
  7. Ask yo
    Ask yourself that question and don't feed off the whiners whose nonsense you seem to read for your facts. I repeat, AC has grown their loads very nicely in the last few years with record BIS most months. The vast majority of FF's are mid tier and growing dramatically as their e50 and e75numbers attest. Upgrades are harder to get because a lot more people are paying higher fares that give them upgrades at time of booking. On /asian routes the % of paid J on a 777 is around 20% and growing as more wealthy Asians discover AC.
    I have no company to support my travel. I bill my clients directly for my travel which I pay for directly.

    So you are suggesting that AC makes most of their money off the great unwashed in the middle. I don't have those facts but I would suggest they make their real money off the J class passenger and those who fly a lot. You arealso possibly suggesting they should open up more J seats for the middle tier fliers. How would that work if people who fly consistenly more than the middle nevergot upgradesbecasue the great unwashed wer well taken care of?

    I think you need an economics course.
     
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  8. Stephan

    Stephan Silver Member

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    Hey, more power to you if you can get away with billing ever higher amounts to your clients for your AC travels. However, many are not able or willing to do this due to company policy or because they increasingly cannot justify the costs to their clients or their bottom line. BIS gains only reflect a lack of other options for the domestic flyer (WJ has learned that well also).

    It's pretty clear that I'm of little value to AC, so I guess they will bank on SE's and all that extra paid Asian J travel to make up for the rest who are not sitting in J flying elsewhere, because they have been alienated by the T-7 R=0 games, or who don't consider TPAC 50% T fares an "enhancement" and prefer not to be stiffed by the ever upward creep of T+ fares in return for a chance at aerolotto.

    To be sure, AC is trying to master the art of extracting more money for less incentives from its remaining mid-tier FFers, but you can only stiff people so long before they walk and seek satisfaction elsewhere. Sure hope that kind of short term "quantitative easing" thinking works out for AC in the longterm.

    BTW It boggles the mind why, if given a choice, anyone would pay for AC T+ or J TPAC when you can fly a quality PE or J product with CX for less.
     
  9. the ignorance and bias just showed through in spades:

    1. I am a senior enough management type and my terms, as they have always been, are to fly in J when on flights over an ocean. I don't buy full J ever. I usually buy latitude over the pacific because that's the best bang for money in that direction. If the meeting is for two or three days and comes up shortly before the meeting sometimes C/D/Z fares are purchased simply because there is no time to rest up post 16 hour flight.
    Many companies have this policy for senior managers. It is a perk of being successful and important to the business.

    2. BIS gains. I bet you were happy when AC as losing money during the recession as seats cost less then. Do you ever look to see what the return on investment is in the airline business. Governments have had to bail out major carriers after serious recessions. That's the illogical consequences of the industry. when bhungry for business they subsidize the low hanging fruit, which ultimately costs the taxpayer.

    3. You are little value to AC if your expectations are to get a J class seat for every ticket you buy. Most people who don't have very high status are simply happy to get an aisle or window seat. You seem to have higher expectations Of course you have yet to declare what status you have to support your claim you are poorly treated when it comes to FREE benefits. AC pens every flight for upgrades when seats are not sold. Sometimes this is done at the 7 day window for SE's and the 4 day window for E's and a tthe gate for all standby pax in order of status which again seems fair to me.

    4. People like you have been compalining about benefit reductions for the last 15 years yet their mid tier numbers have more than doubled since then. as noted your point of intersection is the whiners club which has always been a vocal small minority of people who think an airline owes them the right to have unlimited FREE benefits. Sites like this one exist to allow people that need or want to beat the game a playing field for accumulating benefits and looking for good deals and ways to get upgrades,etc. Unfortunately they also breed a whiners class.

    5. Walmart is trying every day to extract more money from its customers. That's what every bsiness is supposed to do. charities are the reverse; they look for ways to give money away.

    6. Your other snide remark about lower fares on CX are a show of your less than brilliant analysis. CX does not fly non stop to PVG or PEK or NRT from either YYZ or YVR. Those are my primary destinations, not HKG although I do return at times from there when connecting from other parts of Asia. And, if you really want to know the real facts AC matches CX in lower fares for travellers based in HKG and southern China. CX J (C,D and J or latitude equivalant) are not cheaper than AC on the HKG route, at least not on a regular basis.


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  10. Stephan

    Stephan Silver Member

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    So, to summarize;
    1. You're senior management and therefore entitled, given a generous company travel policy. You're happy with the level of benefits currently ascribed to an SE. Your situation, therefore, clearly translates to all the other eups sitting in J. So what is the problem?
    2. The airline industry is a tough industry, subject to the business cycle. That is insightful. And of course the corollary: When all else fails at least there are the government bailouts when you're too big to fail.
    3. It's all about managing expectations. Clearly profitability is not dependent on maintaining consistent client base satisfaction. Devaluations are the way to go when you need some good news. You've gotta do what you've gotta do to survive. And if that doesn't work - see #2
    That is certainly one business model.
    4.. Brand loyalty is not reward driven. BIS numbers clearly show this. Really? Explain to me again where the long term profitability is when you're alienating a significant proportion of your consistent and recurring revenue generators? Especially if as you say the number of E50s etc is increasing. Are you seriously suggesting that those in lower tiers are enjoying the same levels of service? If the world of AC loyalty is so rosy why are so many complaining? Why is everyone below E50 now some kind of pariah to the mother corp?
    5. AC is not a charity - well except for senior management. Poor choice when singling out Walmart BTW. Their management seems to know how to respond to its client base and could teach AC senior management a thing or two about how to instill a perception of value in its clientele by at least appearing to be competitive and incentivising brand loyalty. Since when is the necessity to attain ever higher tier levels for the same, now diluted perks a benefit for those flyers? But then of course you keep reassuring us that all AC clients are happy these days, so maybe I'm wrong there.
    6. Sorry, but IMO AC has a long way to go to meet the service levels found at CX - especially if you're going to charge me the same. YMMV. But then I guess that is where the TPAC T fare @50% mileage comes in. Different business models.
     
  11. 1. earned not entitled
    2. an illogical industry is all that is but a necessary one and therefore the bailouts.
    3. that's your view and it won't change because whining about everythig AC does gives you your jollies.
    4.. where is this "significant alienation" when the FF base is growing every year and palnes are very full. Not so many are complaining. People who post on these boards are an insignificant % of the flying public and most of those who do post negatively are just like you obviously. AC and other carriers measure their complaints year over year and generally act on ones that get a lot of repition. Normal business practice.
    5. You are definitely wrong and in an insignificant minority.
    6. CX has fares with less than 50% mileage as do all major carriers. I have flown CX in J and Y and their product is ust so so in my opinion.

    its very obvious you want to generate a negative feel toward AC w/o indicating your status level or your travel destinations based on some preceived slight or some belief that AC owes you special status. There is a guy on another board who never flys anymore and still rags on AC. You sound like him and that tells me I am once agasin wasting my time. see ya when you show real stuff and not the ambiguous BS.
     
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