AA Updates RDM Earning On Hawaiian Airlines (HA) for International Flights

Discussion in 'American Airlines | AAdvantage' started by DestinationDavid, May 25, 2011.  |  Print Topic

  1. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    12,715
    Status Points:
    11,770
    Added today to AA's Hawaiian Airlines mileage earning page:

    Earn miles on Hawaiian Airlines within the Hawaiian Islands and between Hawaii and Australia, Japan, Korea, Philippines and Tahiti. Redeem miles on all Hawaiian Airlines flights, including travel between the U.S. and Hawaii. LINK.

    International – Effective May 25, 2011

    First Class: F, P, A* *Bookings in A represent an Economy Class fare with an upgrade to First Class and do not earn the Class of Service Bonus.
    Base: 100%
    Class of Service Bonus: 50%

    Economy Class: W, Y, Q, B, N, M, H, K, L
    Base: 100%

    Hopefully with these updates to the page someone at AA will finally take the time to update the title of the mileage page to not read "Hawaiin". ;)
     
    JohnDeere19 likes this.
  2. bakedpatato
    Original Member

    bakedpatato Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,558
    Likes Received:
    13,734
    Status Points:
    10,425
    May God have mercy on anyone who is in whY HNL-SYD(and even J):D
     
    JohnDeere19 likes this.
  3. JohnDeere19
    Original Member

    JohnDeere19 Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    6,892
    Status Points:
    4,625
    You're going about this all wrong, start the all new Hawaiin Airlines, charge $0.01/flight, claim missing mileage credit, profit. :D
     
  4. JohnDeere19
    Original Member

    JohnDeere19 Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    6,892
    Status Points:
    4,625
    Even J :eek:
     
  5. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    12,715
    Status Points:
    11,770
    Recliners....
     
    bakedpatato and JohnDeere19 like this.
  6. bakedpatato
    Original Member

    bakedpatato Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,558
    Likes Received:
    13,734
    Status Points:
    10,425
    And DigiPlayers...not even looping IFE not to mention non Signature Interior carryon bins :rolleyes:
     
    JohnDeere19 likes this.
  7. Travelman
    Original Member

    Travelman Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    4,441
    Status Points:
    2,445
    Even though the verbage on the Hawaiian Airlines on AA.com page reads ...
    and
    It seems that you still cannot use Hawaiian Airlines on an ALL-AIRLINE Award to North America.
    I just tried changing my LAX-HNL leg of a India/Middle East to North America All Partner Award from an AA flight to a HA (Hawaiian Air) flight but was once again told that I could only do so by booking it as a separate 17,500 award in addition to my India/Middle East to North America All partner Award. I mentioned that I thought that this changed on 25-May and even read the above verbage.

    Either the agent is correct and they still do not allow use on AAdvantage All-Airline Awards or
    the agent is incorrect perhaps because the systems might not have been been updated yet.

    Can anyone shed more light on this?
     
  8. DestinationDavid
    Original Member

    DestinationDavid Milepoint Guide

    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    12,715
    Status Points:
    11,770
    Unfortunately I'm on the go and can't type out a wordy response on my phone, but just to clarify, you cannot use Hawaiian Airlines on a oneworld award or an AA award. As the names suggest oneworld awards are for oneworld airlines and AA awards are on AA metal, so Hawaiian doesnt qualify under those.

    Hawaiian is a partner and awards with them actually are All-Partner awards. I think you're confused on some things.
     
  9. monster
    Original Member

    monster Silver Member

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    69
    Status Points:
    240
    As the previous poster said, if you're using HA on an award, it is by definition an All Partner award. I believe that the actual problem you're running into has nothing to do with the rules for using HA for awards. Rather, it has to do with published routings when using non-AA airlines. I have 2 examples.

    I was trying to book
    HNL (HA) LAS (AA) DFW (AA) LGA stopover JFK (AA) LHR (BA) VCE.
    They wanted to charge HNL-LAS and LAS-VCE as a separate awards because HA does not publish a routing from HNL-VCE. I was eventually able to ticket
    LIH (AA) LAX (AA) JFK stopover JFK (AA) LHR (BA) VCE
    as a single award.

    I also ran into a similar problem trying to book
    HBA (QF) SYD (QF) AKL (TN) PPT (TN) LAX (AA) JFK.
    Again, because TN does not publish a routing HBA-JFK, but does publish a routing SYD-JFK, I was forced to pay for 2 awards: HBA-SYD and SYD-JFK. It was issued on a single PNR, but had 2 ticket numbers (1 for each award).

    In talking to agents, and from what I've read (particularly over at travelingbetter.com), I believe that in order to be issued as a single award, there has to be either a published routing, or it has to be within Maximum Permitted Mileage (with possibly plus some percentage allowed above the published number). In addition, and this is just speculation, it probably only happens when there are 2 non-AA airlines involved in the itinerary.

    The rules for whose routing rules to use can be complex, and are (I think) set by IATA, not by AA. In my second example, I was told that while QF does publish a routing HBA-JFK, TN's routing rules had to be used because they were the over water carrier.

    Looking at it from AA's point of view, I can understand why they need to charge 2 separate awards since they have to pay non-AA airlines for 2 different tickets. I think, that if there were only one non-AA airline involved, it wouldn't matter since the rest of the itinerary is on AA only, and they don't have to pay real money for that part of the itinerary.

    From our point of view, it would be nice not to have to worry about arcane rules like this which are effectively hidden within the award chart (like we're on double secret probation). I have to believe that this issue comes up with a miniscule number of award tickets, and it therefore isn't going to change.

    AA seems to have more of a presence here, perhaps someone from AAdvantage can explain the issue more definitively.
     
  10. Travelman
    Original Member

    Travelman Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    4,441
    Status Points:
    2,445
    DestinationDavid, I edited my post above to remove the comment on AA and OneWorld awards. The post is about AAdvantage All-Airline Awards - the term that is now used on aa.com rather than the term "AAdvantage All-Partner Awards" that many of us have previously known this award by - see the page here.

    My post is about using Hawaiian airlines as an AAdvantage participating carrier on an AAdvantage ALL-AIRLINE Award (ALL-PARTNER Award).

    As of 25-May-2011, the text on the Hawaiian airline page on aa.com (the full page can be seen here):
    As DestinationDavid correctly points out, the only Award which one will be able to use is an AAdvantage ALL-AIRLINE (All-Partner) Award to redeem miles on Hawaiian Airlines flights.

    However, the ALL-AIRLINE AWARD chart as seen here states "** Does not include travel on Hawaiian Airlines to/from North America". In light of this statement, it is not clear to me how people are going to be able to "Redeem miles on all Hawaiian Airlines flights, including travel between the U.S. and Hawaii" since there are HA flights to/from North America. Notice that there is a double asterisk before the statement; however, the double asterisk does not appear anywhere on the chart, unlike the other symbols listed in that left hand column.

    Since there are HA flights to/from North America and since the web page states "Redeem miles on all Hawaiian Airlines flights , i figured that the restriction mentioned above was being lifted on ALL-AIRLINE (All-Partner) Awards.

    However, that does not seem to be the case - at least for India/Middle East to North America awards.

    Whenever we try to use Hawaiian Airlines as one of the participating carriers on an India/Middle East to North America ALL-AIRLINE award it always fares as two separate awards - the break being the North American gateway/entry point (LAX) - ie Middle East to LAX and then LAX-HNL.

    Note that whenever AA is used as the carrier between LAX and HNL the itineray fares as one award rather than two awards. The itinerary only fares as two awards whenever Hawaiian Airlines is attempted to be used on the final leg.

    And this is what i wanted people to realize ... the statement
    may not be as straightforward as redeeming miles on other participating airline carriers. I was hoping that the announcements made a couple of days ago re HA would have made award redemption easier / clearer --- however, IMHO, redemption on Hawaiian airlines continues to be poorly documented by AA on publicly-accessible pages.

    If anyone has been able to book an ALL-AIRLINE (All-Partner) Award, using HA as one leg of a multi-segment itinerary which also uses other participating carriers, I would appreciate knowing how. Or perhaps there is another factor causing the break when using HA on the LAX-HNL leg (but I would think that mileage can be ruled out as a factor since AA on LAX-HNL works ok).
     
  11. Travelman
    Original Member

    Travelman Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    4,441
    Status Points:
    2,445
    Monster, I just notice you posted while I was typing my post above ... my apologies if you end up covering my questons before i finalized my post :)

    EDIT: Monster, i just read your post above ... this is what I was thinking might be the situation when I mentioned "or is it other factors" at the end of the post. If this is the case, which over the water carrier would it be - the one flying to LAX nonstop from the Middle East or the HA flying over the water at the end ... I surmise the first carrier which is LY ... I thought that there use to be published routings for TLV-HNL for LY but perhaps i am wrong ... where can one find the published routings/carriers.
     
  12. Travelman
    Original Member

    Travelman Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    4,441
    Status Points:
    2,445
    I searched for fares between TLV and HNL using LY on expertflyer.com.
    I then asked to see the routing rules for a business class fare ...
    for those with subscriptions to expertflyer the rule can be seen at this page which seems to be coming from Galileo. *** EDIT - OPS! See My post #15 below This is the Booking Class page, NOT the Fare Routing Results page!!) ***

    *** POST # 15 below superceded this paragraph in light greyed text ***
    As a non-expert, it seems to me that HA is allowed on a published routing between TLV and ** HNL with LY as the over the water carrier. If that is the case, then there must still be some other factor coming into play.


    By the way, i was told that I could use AA or AS (Alaska) on the LAX-HNL leg and it would remain as one All-Airline (All-Partner) award. This is a Business Award ticket which means that it is booked into First on the LAX-HNL leg.

    Thanks for the attempts to understand why this route TLV (LY) LAX (HA) HNL fares into 2 separate All-Airline (All-Partner) awards especially in light of the recent announcement that miles can be redeemed on all Hawaian airline flights as shown in post # 10 above which would seem to indicate HA should be able to be used on All-Airlines (All-Partner) awards to/from North America for that marketing statement to be true.
     
  13. monster
    Original Member

    monster Silver Member

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    69
    Status Points:
    240
    Travelman, I unfortunately have no more insight to offer. I was just relating my personal experience in trying to book a similar award.

    Your comment about using AS is interesting because I was also told that either AA or AS would be allowed, but not HA. The otherwise competent AAgent was very definite that it was because HA did not publish a fare HNL-VCE and it was therefore not a valid routing.

    When you were trying to change your award, did you ask AA why it was pricing as 2 awards? Try calling during regular U.S. business hours when there seem to be more knowledgeable AAgents, and have them explain to you exactly why it is pricing as 2 awards

    Good luck!
     
    DestinationDavid likes this.
  14. Travelman
    Original Member

    Travelman Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    4,441
    Status Points:
    2,445
    Monster,
    Thanks for the insights regarding your own booking experience using HA on AAdvantage All-Airline (All-Partner) Awards. I have found this page on the Hawaiian Airlines website which lists which flights one can redeem AAdvantage miles on. There doesn't seem to be any indication when this page was last updated.

     
  15. Travelman
    Original Member

    Travelman Gold Member

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    4,441
    Status Points:
    2,445
    Monster,

    For this particular example (TLY - LAX - HNL) the problem does seem related to published routings as in your examples above.

    In my earlier post (#12), i incorrectly looked at / linked to the Booking Codes page rather than the Fare Routing Results (I wondered why I had never seen that View Booking class box before when looking at Fare Rules :)).

    When one looks at the Fare Routing Rules for El Al (LY) - the over water carrier - both AA & AS are listed - but not HA -for travel within Area 1!
    Which would explain why I can use AA or AS (Alaska) on the LAX-HNL leg and it will remain as one All-Airline (All-Partner) award but if i want to use HA it fares as two separate awards :(

    For those who subscribe to Expertflyer, the Fare Routing Results can be seen here
    For those that do not subscribe to Expertflyer, you can view the rules here on publicly accessible matrix.itasoftware.com:
    Thanks for helping one understand why HA cannot be used on this particular routing
     

Share This Page