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Discussion in 'American Airlines | AAdvantage' started by rwoman, Apr 24, 2012.
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LA Times: 757 lands safely at LAX after one engine quits
I'd be nervous for that last hour!!
An hour out of LAX there isn't really anywhere to go. A nervous hour but a necessary one!
not much info in the article.
1 hour is within the ETOPS safety range. The aircraft, in order to fly to/from Hawaii had to have ETOPS capability, meaning it could fly on one engine for an extended period. At the end of the day everyone is safe, and THAT's what we care about most.
I thought blowing an engine "mostly" happens during take off, and rarely so late into a flight. I know that it can happen at any time, but how frequently do flights lose an engine towards the end of the flight, rather than at the beginning?
Well, yes, it is ETOPS certified, and since ETOPS came along the 757s and 767s, now 737s, have proven quite safe on routes like Hawaii. All that said, Robin/rwoman is correct. I'd be quite nervous in the last hour. It was supposed to have two engines. One stopped, which wasn't supposed to happen. 2 - 1 = 1. As a passenger, I would be thinking that 1 - 1 = 0.
It's like saying you'll be fine with just one kidney. Sure you come equipped with two, but only one is really needed...
The AA757's are powered by Rolls-Royce RB211 engines, a design that entered service in 1972 for the Lockheed Tri-Star. It has been steadily improved over the years and has 180 minutes ETOPS in the 757, meaning it must be able to operate safely for three hours to reach the nearest suitable airport. Although Qantas has had numerous well-documented problems with another version of this engine in very old 747's it is an extremely reliable engine.
In-flight engine failures in modern aircraft are very, very rare. When one happens a major investigation ensues, as it will in this case. However, when they do happen, it is statistically most likely to happen on takeoff, when the stress on the engine is greatest. All transport category aircraft must be able to have an engine failure at teh most critical phase of flight, rotation, and continue a normal takeoff with the remaining engine(s). Every pilot trains in such failure although very, very few have experienced one outside of a simulator.
Almost all inflight engine failures in recent years have been caused by external factors. Volcanic dust is one that has been highly publicized and is a significant risk. The most common one is bird strikes, such as the event that brought about the famous US Airways New York river landing. These events are so rare that every one of them draws worldwide attention, something that should probably be reassuring.
Well, not sure about volcanic dust but I guess I will tentatively rule out a bird strike at FL 3x an hour out from Los Angeles at 4 a.m. Seems to me that would have been one crazy ol' bird.
Great explanation, thanks jbcarioca!
I guess I should consider myself "lucky" if these occurrences are rare, since I had the opportunity to experience one on an AA flight out of SFO on take off this past year. It scared the bejesus out of me -- the noise, the loss of power during the climb, the immediate change of trajectory of the plane -- but I'm a timid flier to begin with. One thing I did note, though, was how nonchalant the crew was, which was actually really helpful in calming me down: I was in F and had could see one of the flight attendants in her jump seat, and hear the conversation they were having. They didn't even stop the conversation they were having or react at all, really. A few minutes later, pilot came on and suggested that we might have "noticed a small vibration" (LOL), and that we were heading back to SFO due to the loss of the engine...
This was a mileage run and I was really shaken up when we got back on the ground. But it was during one of the pre-BK DEQM between SFO-ORD, and I really wanted those miles...so I got on a flight later that morning to complete the run.
Thanks. The one you were on, if it happened the way they described it, was not an engine failure at all, but a precautionary shutdown, an entirely different beast.
to go further there are different distinctions used, some of which are:
1) In Flight engine shutdown rate - that is the total number of times an engine has been shut down in flight for any reason ( other than training and testing) divided by the total hours of operation;
2) Engine failure- another category that shows the nimber fo times an engine has actually stopped rather than been shut down. That is very, very rare and means something bad, but is not necessarily an emergency
3) Precautionary engine shutdown- that might be caused by high temperature, change in internal pressures (e.g oil), engine surges, oil or hydraulic leaks, bird strikes or other things. This is not normal, but these are ordinarily not emergencies.
So, to further cloud this, some airplanes, the original B747 for example, have been certified to take off fly and land with one engine not operating. It was perfectly legal to take passengers along and do that, although almsot all airline operating rules prohibit it.
So, lastly, there are emergencies by definition. Any fire anywhere on an airplane is an official emergency, including an engine fire. Technically that probably does not include a cigarette.
As a former flight instructor teaching jet transitions, among other things, I am perfectly prepared to bore you senseless on airplane topics. *
*or anything else!
But are you perfectly prepared to fly the plane for us should the pilots all eat the same noxious meal?
Probably hit that meteor
Looks like this was not a #2 case?
‘Airline spokesman Matt Miller in Dallas says instruments on Flight 246 showed trouble with the left engine about an hour before its scheduled arrival in Los Angeles and that the engine was shut down.’
Scary, hope to never encounter this. Happy all ended well!
Ditto +1! Always safe travels!
I for one appreciate your knowledge! Thanks for sharing it.
Wow, i think i wont tell the wife about this we are taking the aa 757 from LAX-KOA on Wednesday. If they have gogo on the flight i may do some updates since milepoint is free on flights. hopefully we have two engines the whole way.
Pretty sure you idea of GoGo on an AA 752 overwater is a stopstop. Sorry.
Sent from my iPhone using milepoint
As kansaskeith points out, AA doesn't offer wifi on flight to Hawaii currently. The new 777 is slated to have international wifi though.
On a side note, I'm flying LAX-HNL twice in the next three months. Here's hoping my engines stay functional.
So when the new model 777 is down to one kidney over pitch-black ocean, I guess I could email my lawyer about changing my will. For a fee of course (unless international wifi is part of GoGo and my lawyer is on milepoint.)
Is there anything you haven't done?
I do not have a B757 type rating but I do have five others, but none of them are current. I'd be able to fly it an land safely, but somebody who's a frequent user of a really good PC simulator program might be able to do that too. Unless something goes wrong most jets are quite easy to fly if you know which buttons to push. Of course, things can go wrong...
Almost all the training pilots need to about what to do when things go wrong, and what systems do what and how, so that you're prepared to understand what is happening when something does. experience is an important part of that because the experience helps the pilot to know the difference between something being wrong and not.
Yes. Most things. You people always seem to ask about the handful of things I have done. that is really good for my tender ego.
Likewise...we are flying LAX-HNL-LAX 6/24-7/1...I think I will keep this story from the wife and kids...