A "Developing Country" which gives air passengers what they want (vs. America's aerogangsteros

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Miles/Points' started by ahappyelite, Jan 12, 2015.  |  Print Topic

  1. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    Mango, Kulula, Comair, SAA, Safair......how I love you so.
    Travelling around Africa, low fares, great service (meals on 45 minute long flights), cheap last minute fares, planes that aren't always packed, free checked baggage, boardings that don't take an hour due to baggage and bouncing customers out of seats, coach seats that are better than US First Class, a new entrant says he will charge $5 for flights, nice airports, free wifi,
    remember when airlines competed? Before everything was algorithmic? Before absurd change fees and before you felt when you buy a ticket the airline is betting against you even making your flight?
    remember the time before air travel was about intentionally screwing you over and inflicting pain?
    remember when you could just take off and go.
    when the customer had leverage
    It can happen again in our DEVELOPED country if we take the keys to the skies away from the aerogangsteros
    I have seen the future Americans want, and it is South Africa. Meanwhile, the greedsters give us the worst airline service since Lindbergh.
     
  2. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    After you wake from your dream and get off the silly hyperbole ..add passengers who rush to the front of the plane before taxi is completed, luggage that has to lugged from the domestic to the International Terminal ( use a "porter" and that might the last you see of your bags). Proof of malaria vaccine required in places... yeah welcome to South Africa.:)
     
  3. flyforawg

    flyforawg Silver Member

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    More details, please. I chose SAA A330-200 to see and compared to the AA321T.

    From SAA site http://www.flysaa.com/us/en/flyingSAA/SAAFleet/A330-200-information.html the seat pitch in Y is 32". This matches what I found for the AA planehttp://www.seatguru.com/airlines/US_Airways/US_Airways_Airbus_A321.php.

    I just did a couple of quick searches and saw J-burg to Durban came in at .29 per mile and JFK-SFO came in at .09 per mile. The perks may be nicer on SAA with a purhcased economy ticket, but the cost is higher.

    My observation is these kinds of things happen with lots of regulation. Everyone will get a better ride but at a cost. I'm sure you could buy up on AA to get a bigger seat pitch up in main cabin extra and buy the food of your choice. When I picked the best aisle seats on the AA flight it brought the cost of the flight up to .26 per mile. That would leave me with roughly $75 for food before I got the the SAA price point.

    These were just random thoughts that popped into my head when trying to understand your position. If you could, please provide some details. I do like sticking it to the man so would love to have real ammunition to use, but you haven't won me over yet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
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  4. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    there are routine $50 and $60 segment fares, but admittedly less so on SAA
     
  5. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    FlySafair: Fleet size 2 (unless you really mean Safair and their cargo fleet!?)
    Kulula: Fleet size 11
    Mango: Fleet size 9
    Comair: Fleet size 17

    Recently flew Comair. There was nothing "better than US First Class" about their coach seats. It's 3-3 on a 737 --their 737s have the same cabin width as "ours".

    'nuf said.
     
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  6. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    I was in a Free, empty exit row which was FAR better than United's Greyhound seating first class. Cost $70; and 500 miles and a meal (which was good)
     
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  7. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    So your fix for the US airline system is to load the planes with just 2 passengers per row, so they each have one side of the aisle to themselves? Got it.
     
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  8. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    its called a free market
     
  9. Wandering Aramean
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    Wandering Aramean Gold Member

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    Indeed. And the US aviation market is one more than many other countries in the world.

    As for remembering a "time when airlines competed" I'm curious what era you're referring to. Certainly not the CAB-era where fares and routes were fixed by the governments, right??
     
  10. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    The US aviation market resembles nothing that almost every customer would want (There are some people, mostly those who spend other people's money-and who also attack government waste-who want high fare airlines, but almost no one wants what we are stuck with. Let the Congressional hearings begin.
     
  11. viguera
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    viguera Gold Member

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    Oooh another rant...

    I've registered aerogangsteros.com and aerogangsters.com, just in case this actually takes off this time.
     
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  12. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    Two suggestions:

    1. Move to South Africa...

    or...

    2. Start your own airline with two giant seats per row in a 737. Serve scrumptious meals on short-hauls and watch the millions roll in.
     
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  13. newbluesea
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    newbluesea Gold Member

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    Perhaps the OP would better served if he skipped the repetitive hyperbole ( though I rather doubt its going to happen) .:)

    I flew SAA from GRU to JNB in C on a dated 340 the service and the wine was fine ( the food was nothing to write home about) The only thing "unique" is that they are one of two airlines which currently fly from SA to Southern Africa.
    There has been for years however concerns as to whether SAA will survive financially hence the lack of updated aircraft stock and seeming reluctance of the govt there to pour more money down the drain.

    Fly Comair also in C from JNB to CPT which reminded me of BA intra-Europe which was in fact nothing better than two narrow seats with the middle blocked.

    I have seen the future of SA aviation and I am suitably unimpressed and would go further to question the OP's knowledge about the aviation industry as a whole ( sound like a kid on his first overseas trip :D) .
     
  14. ahappyelite

    ahappyelite Silver Member

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    only since I've personally been attacked.
    Don't know who these people are but could surely be employees and investors, surely don't seem like people who really travel
    the US airline industry is indefensible which is why these folks attack personally
    It is serving only Wall Street at this point
    And yes sparky, more than 2 million miles flow (but don't have your one thousand six hundred posts and doubt I ever will)
     
  15. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    These rants may be amusing, but life's too short for reruns, so welcome to my Ignore list :)
     
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  16. viguera
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    viguera Gold Member

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    But it's like some strange lambic pentameter run through an old version of Google Translate. :)
     
  17. MX

    MX Gold Member

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    Contrary to those who can tolerate only their own rants, I welcome other people rants as well. It's certainly healthier to vent than keep things bottled up inside. However, the saccharine/koolaid posts do get on my nerves sometimes.
     
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  18. flyforawg

    flyforawg Silver Member

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  19. HaveMilesWillTravel
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    HaveMilesWillTravel Gold Member

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    There are rants and then there are rants.

    I fully support anyone's right to rant. I also support my right to not listen (think: switch channels on TV)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
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  20. Dublin_rfk

    Dublin_rfk Gold Member

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    As I have a rant running currently I believe that I will leave this to the more capable hands of others.
     
  21. iolaire
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    iolaire Gold Member

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    We enjoyed the grain salads on Comair. We still wonder if the salads with odd grains like Bulgur are a SA thing or a UK thing.

    I for one enjoyed the service and food on the BA/Comair flight form JNB to CPT in business. I don't think its that they operate that differently, its just that they have not yet gotten to a point where they feel the need to cut out $x in food. Maybe this is because they have lower overall operation costs, or air travel is still a premium product that demands food. Our airlines are ran via cost analysis - as illustrated when your deal leader decided that he can save $50,000 annually by cutting out your olive.

    We have gotten to a point where our low cost carriers actually have more food and snacks in economy than our non low cost carriers. I think that shows a lack of pride in the product on our legacy carriers. They look at customers (like me) who buy on price and decide that they don't need X. Versus the legacy carriers, who used to be the cheaper route with no meal, are able to take price in continuing to offer $1 in snacks.

    ahappyelite I think you had a valid point to make but the post didn't make sense to everyone, or it just felt like you were venting. Had you had a more structured and formatted post it might have been received better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
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  22. SM105

    SM105 Silver Member

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    Anybody who holds SAA up as a business model to be emulated has obviously never looked at their balance sheet.

    SAA's financial performance makes United, Delta and American's Chapter 11 filings seem like piggy bank raids in comparison.
     
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  23. iolaire
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    iolaire Gold Member

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    Yes, I doubt we have. Just as we don't really care about Singapore Airlines balance sheet when we fly them. We just look at the services provided and make a gut comparison to US domestic routes...
     
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  24. SM105

    SM105 Silver Member

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    Well, in the case of SAA it's taxpayer subsidy that keeps them afloat. So if you aren't paying for the meals via BOB, you're paying for them another way. That's the point I'm making.
     
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  25. iolaire
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    iolaire Gold Member

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    Yes and I'd also point out I'm sure the US airlines get subsidies in the form of tax breaks, postal subsidies, tax breaks for the energy companies etc.... So you could argue the same about the US air system. But I have no idea of how these levels compare to what SAA gets.
    http://thehill.com/policy/transport...receive-1b-in-tax-breaks-from-states-annually (state level subsidy)
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...007fd6-e51a-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_story.html (postal subsidy I grew up in Alaska and benefited from twice daily jet service to PSG a town of a few 1,000 people.)
    http://watertowndailytimes.com/article/20140411/NEWS03/704119995 (city specific subsidy)
    http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/other/pg/american-airlines-amr-pensions.html (pension insurance)
     

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