90 Days from Application or Approval

Discussion in 'General Discussion | Credit Cards' started by merice107, Nov 18, 2012.  |  Print Topic

  1. merice107

    merice107 Silver Member

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    My wife applied for her SPG Amex on September 1st and was approved on September 3rd. 90 days from September 1st is November 30th, just in time for the HHilton Amex 65,000 deal that expires after the 30th of November.

    My question is if that 90 day rule applies to the date of application or the date of approval? She has 5 hard pulls since June 1st (obviously Amex being the last on September 1st). Although an extra 25,000 points would be nice, I would rather wait and have a safer chance with the 40,000 normal offer than running into issues and getting too greedy.
     
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  2. daemon14

    daemon14 Gold Member

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    The day of application is when the credit pull was done.

    I think the 91-day rule is so that you have 182 days between every other app, and 6 months is when "recent inquiries" just become "inquiries."
     
  3. merice107

    merice107 Silver Member

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    So do you think that is too early for another Amex personal card? 90 days between the first and second?
     
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  4. Million Mile Secrets

    Million Mile Secrets Silver Member

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    You should be fine if you're after just 1 card, but as always your miles may vary.
     
  5. merice107

    merice107 Silver Member

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    Would throwing in the Chase United Mileage Plus card for 55,000 be ok since it is issued by Chase and not Amex?
     
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  6. deant
    Original Member

    deant Milepoint Guide

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    For every additional application, the risk of rejection becomes higher. No one can tell you if it would get approved or not. The question is what will it do to your plans if you get a hard pull but no card? Do you have a future planned churn that will be impacted if you get a denial? If it were me, I would probably take the risk and apply and then delay or reduce my next churn.
     
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  7. merice107

    merice107 Silver Member

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    If you apply for a card and get denied are you ever able to apply again with a real chance of getting approved (6 months? 12 months)? Or if you get denied, do you basically have to scrap that card off of your list of cards to get?
     
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  8. daemon14

    daemon14 Gold Member

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    Do you have a current Chase that you'd be willing to "trade in?" The times when I haven't been approved for a card, I just closed down an old card and got the new one.

    The 55K offer is probably the best of the year in my opinion, I'd risk an app for that.
     
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  9. merice107

    merice107 Silver Member

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    We each only have the BA Visa. And I am waiting until my anniversary of the card to get my additional 50,000 Avios. But maybe I could offer some of the credit...
     
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  10. malikguy

    malikguy Silver Member

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    Most lenders do not allow you to re-apply for 6 months. I do not know of any lenders that will ban you from their product just because you were denied before.
     
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  11. malikguy

    malikguy Silver Member

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    I do tons of business with Chase, so here's the low down with them. One thing off the bat to keep in mind is that Signature cards require a minimum credit line of $5,000. With Chase and other lenders, all of your credit lines are looked at as one total line and with Chase specifically, it is very easy to move credit around from one card to another. For example, if you have 4 credit cards with the following limits, $5,000, $5,000, $2,500, $2,500, your total line with that lender is $15,000 and that is your total exposure (risk) to them. You can always move these limits around from one card to another (keep the Signature requirement in mind). Once you have credit lines established with Chase, it is fairly easy to get new lines opened as long as you have good credit.

    Example:

    Existing cards:
    Chase Marriott Rewards Signature: $7,500 limit
    Chase United: $5,000 limit
    Chase Sapphire: $5,000 limit
    Chase Amazon: $2,500 limit
    Total lines: $20,000

    New cards:
    Chase Southwest: Move $2,500 from Marriott Rewards ($7,500 to $5,000) = Approved
    Chase Freedom: Move $2,500 from Chase Sapphire ($5,000 to $2,500) = Approved

    Your total exposure to Chase has not changed and the total of your lines ($20,000) remains the same. This is why this works.

    You can apply for as many cards as you like and they can all get declined. No problem! Call Chase credit card customer service and tell them you need to speak with the Credit Department. Don't let them talk you out of it, just insist to speak with them. Once on the line, let the credit analyst know that you know you already have a lot of credit with them, but you really want to participate in these new card programs. Tell them that since you do not qualify for additional credit, that you'd like to reduce, not close (this is bad for your credit) one or more of your credit lines to free up credit for your new accounts. I've never had this fail and I have more than 6 credits card with Chase. Remember, it never hurts to ask if you qualify for any additional credit, even if it's $500-$1,000, so try that path first. If that fails, then reduce lines, then if that fails, close accounts as a last resort.
     
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  12. deant
    Original Member

    deant Milepoint Guide

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    If you get denied, there is no real problem. You can just apply for the same card in a couple of months.
     
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  13. LAM

    LAM Silver Member

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    Do you have a link for this offer?
     
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  14. merice107

    merice107 Silver Member

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  15. daemon14

    daemon14 Gold Member

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    Keep in mind for the UA 55K offer, you need to have an active account with some miles in it to qualify for the offer.
     
  16. servo

    servo Silver Member

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    It has been reported that not only do you have to have miles in your account, but "fresh" miles at that. So, if you have an e-rewards account and need to get 500 miles over to UA, do that, or make a UA portal purchase to get the fresh miles in order for the offer to appear using the 'premier' link.
     
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  17. merice107

    merice107 Silver Member

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    I only had 100 miles in my account when I got the link to show up as 65,000 (really 55,000). However, I do have a scheduled flight to RT Chicago-Maui on it soon. The last it showed up for me was 11/19. Now it won't show up.
     
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  18. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Except for the don't close advice i agree with this. If you do not expect to use the account close it. Closing accounts will not reduce your credit scores if you do it. If the bank does it instead, then you do get dinged. As long as you have at least 8-10 open good trades on your records you'll not be damaged by closing accounts when you retain others with the same issuer. Your continuing good record with, in this case, Chase trumps pure number of accounts in almost all credit scores and algorithms. YMMV, but people get a bum steer when they're told to never close an account. For the record my most recent generic FICO was 805. I assiduously close accounts I do not use. "Account closed at customers request" is a positive on manual reviews, and is ignored in nearly all credit scoring models.

    So, don't worry about closing unused accounts.
     
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  19. miles and smiles
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    miles and smiles Gold Member

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    Thanks for confirming. I have always sensed that this is true, but it's helpful to get confirmation. Trying to keep track of too many accounts and keeping up some activity in a lot of accounts is a pain. I only maintain cards that provide me some benefit and have some good reason(s) to continue with.
     
  20. malikguy

    malikguy Silver Member

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    jbcarioca, this is conditional as you mentioned. You can potentially do some serious damage to your score if you close a major tradeline on your account. As you mentioned, if you have many cards, it has much of a less effect on your score, but if you only have maybe two accounts, then it could be very detrimental. Let's not give the wrong impression as many people are in many different situations. So, I think it goes both ways. If you have a strong profile with many accounts, then closing accounts isn't a big deal. But, it goes the same way with everything else. Stronger profiles allow you to do more things without huge score swings such as opening/closing accounts and new inquiries whereas it would have a much larger effect on persons with weak or new credit profiles. Do you not agree?
     
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  21. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Yes, I agree completely. As I mentioned above, if you have 8-10 good open accounts (meaning no late payments) it then matters little or not at all. If you have a 'thin' or 'new' file meaning 2-3 trades and /or less than three years open, then it matters a lot. Because most of the people in this thread have lots of trades it matters little for them, and can help. One big problem for the churners though, is that the non scored decision rules do measure account volatility, and some will reject people who have lots of new account opening in little time. That last point is gaining momentum in card risk management circles now.
     
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  22. miles and smiles
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    miles and smiles Gold Member

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    This point feels important to me, especially that credit card companies are now paying more attention to it.
     
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  23. jbcarioca
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    jbcarioca Gold Member

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    Thanks. I think it is too. Still, the bloggers advocating churning make too much gain from their referrals etc that they'll not warn anybody off. Caveat Emptor.

    I gave chapter and verse to one of the more prolific ones during a FFU even, and was told "that is not my experience". So long as even MBA's from famous schools ignore facts and publicize "mother in law" research we'll have this foolishness continue so long as the bloggers continue to get spiffs for referrals. That will continue until the issuer risk management people manage to stop the new account generating people.

    The battle between marketing and risk management is shifting to the Risk Management side because of the risk-based-capital rules that are coming to place. At the moment the decision rules (not scores) are stopping some of the churning activity for a couple large issuers, but most are not yet on top of the issue. There is definitive proof of high risk associated with churning (definitions vary) but high anxiety among marketing people and the utter uselessness of direct mail today keep referral agents alive for now.
     
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  24. miles and smiles
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    miles and smiles Gold Member

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    There is a reason so many people call collecting miles and points an addiction. And we know how hard it is for many people to let go of their addictions......................
    As long as I enjoy the process of collecting miles and points and can keep it a fun hobby that helps me travel for less, I'll continue with it.
    But I am taking a break from credit card applications.........
     
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