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Looks like we win some, lose some on the new Points and Money...  

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eponymous_coward
(@eponymous_coward)

Conrad Macao went WAAAAAY up, instead of a night being 504 HKD++ and 16k points, if you spend 16k points your rate is 1098 HKD++.

Given that you can get a flexible rate at 1698++ HKD, I'd say points + cash is a bad deal here.

The Conrad Bangkok drops down to 29k on some dates in Bangkok, though. That's a pretty good deal for rooms.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth on FlyerTalk is pretty loud (they seem to be more attuned to the bad than the good). Care to chime in [USER=43667]@NYCUA1K[/USER] ? You seem to be pretty good at math and probably can figure out how this affects you. If you can take a break from trolling Lucky about World of Hyatt, that is... 😀

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Posted : March 1, 2017 5:11 pm
NYCUA1K
(@nycua1k)

eponymous_coward, post: 2782106, member: 1812 wrote: Conrad Macao went WAAAAAY up, instead of a night being 504 HKD++ and 16k points, if you spend 16k points your rate is 1098 HKD++.

Given that you can get a flexible rate at 1698++ HKD, I'd say points + cash is a bad deal here.

The Conrad Bangkok drops down to 29k on some dates in Bangkok, though. That's a pretty good deal for rooms.

The wailing and gnashing of teeth on FlyerTalk is pretty loud (they seem to be more attuned to the bad than the good). Care to chime in [USER=43667]@NYCUA1K[/USER] ? You seem to be pretty good at math and probably can figure out how this affects you. If you can take a break from trolling Lucky about World of Hyatt, that is... 😀

I think you just raised the one aspect of the new C+P awards "on steroids" that just launched today that I am in the dark about and plan to do some "modeling" to see whether we come out ahead or get hit big. I suspect that it will be a mixed bag, but stay tuned!

As for the rest, it's just econ-101, with supply and demand setting prices or award costs, which will be up when demand for rooms is high and supply or availability is low, and low when supply is high and demand low. For instance, I just searched to dummy book a 5-night award stay in Shanghai as I did before so I had a baseline for comparison, for December 15-20, 2017 (low business travel, high leisure travel season so cheap hotel rooms are good for business). Previously, the lowest rate I EVER got at a comparable time of the year for W-A Shanghai on a 5-night stay, with the 5th night free, was 64K/night; I just got it for 46K/night, and even got tempted to book it right then!!! Likewise, at Hilton Shanghai, a 5-night stay would generally cost me around 32k/night. I just got it for 27k/night, the lowest I have EVER seen! So, it will be seasonal just like real currency and the "market forces" will set the award costs.

As for "trolling" Lucky and Gary, I am about to quit that forum because the level of discourse there has sunken to new lows as it has in other parts of "Trump's America"... Besides, my "crusade" there is over. I wanted to set the record straight and with SPG and HGP going belly up, and HH and MR thriving, it's mission accomplished! I can now just claim victory and walk away :D;)

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Posted : March 1, 2017 6:14 pm
eponymous_coward
(@eponymous_coward)

Yeah, what I can see mirrors what you seem to be seeing: the points required for booking premium hotels during non-peak periods goes WAY down (Conrad HK went down as well). The mixed bag part is that some of the points and money "good deals" that were there before have evaporated: Conrad Macao I already mentioned, but the Reichshof in Hamburg is similar (another cat 4 that punched well above weight class- it's a gorgeous Art Deco remodel); it was an outright STEAL on money and points (16k points + 55 €), and there was even some inventory for that in summertime peak season (!) but now, not so much with points and money. What DOES seem to be the case is that the offseason points required there are down a lot (to 29k from 40k).

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Posted : March 1, 2017 7:26 pm
NYCUA1K
(@nycua1k)

eponymous_coward, post: 2782123, member: 1812 wrote: Yeah, what I can see mirrors what you seem to be seeing: the points required for booking premium hotels during non-peak periods goes WAY down (Conrad HK went down as well). The mixed bag part is that some of the points and money "good deals" that were there before have evaporated: Conrad Macao I already mentioned, but the Reichshof in Hamburg is similar (another cat 4 that punched well above weight class- it's a gorgeous Art Deco remodel); it was an outright STEAL on money and points (16k points + 55 €), and there was even some inventory for that in summertime peak season (!) but now, not so much with points and money. What DOES seem to be the case is that the offseason points required there are down a lot (to 29k from 40k).

I think that the key might be to find a combination or combinations of C+P that would work for each person's circumstances. There are two equations that need to be solved simultaneously for an optimal solution but we first need to figure out the form of those equations prior to the change in order to find a solution that would approximate what was there before under different conditions after the change. It will require gathering some "before" and "after" data...

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Posted : March 1, 2017 8:17 pm
eponymous_coward
(@eponymous_coward)

Well, my "before" data is there. I think net-net the value proposition is gone from some places where I was deriving value from, but there is some compensation (I have to be mindful that there are points accruing on money + points now)...

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Posted : March 1, 2017 9:32 pm
eponymous_coward
(@eponymous_coward)

Also, NOBODY on boardingarea.com is bothering to cover any of this. Opportunity!

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Posted : March 1, 2017 9:34 pm
NYCUA1K
(@nycua1k)

eponymous_coward, post: 2782130, member: 1812 wrote: Well, my "before" data is there. I think net-net the value proposition is gone from some places where I was deriving value from, but there is some compensation (I have to be mindful that there are points accruing on money + points now)...

I must have missed this "I have to be mindful that there are points accruing on money + points now". Is that the case? Are you sure it is not tht points can be earned only on incidentals? If it is the case that points can now be earned on money + points, then that's huge.

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Posted : March 1, 2017 10:08 pm
eponymous_coward
(@eponymous_coward)

Yeah, per Hilton's FT liaison:

"If you book a Points & Money rate when the new functionality goes live later this month [Feb. 2017], the money portion will qualify to earn Hilton Honors Base Points. You'll also qualify to earn Bonus Points through eligible promotions, including the 2K Every Day promotion (note: I posted this update in the promotion thread, as well)."

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Posted : March 1, 2017 10:30 pm
NYCUA1K
(@nycua1k)

It is not clear to me that is correct, but the FAQs entry is also igarbled:

"Do Points & Money Rewards™ change how I earn and receive my Hilton Honors elite status and benefits?
As before, Members will still achieve Hilton Honors status through stays, nights, or Hilton Honors Base Points. All Points & Money Rewards™ stays and nights will continue to count towards the achievement of Hilton Honors status. Base Points are earned on the money portion spent on a stay, but are not earned on Points redeemed. Members with elite status will continue to receive their elite benefits on all Points & Money Rewards™ stays"

The sentence is garbled because I am not sure how one can earn based points on "points redeemed". I believe what was intended was that points are earned on money spent during a stay, but not on the money portion of money+points, as before.

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Posted : March 1, 2017 11:16 pm
eponymous_coward
(@eponymous_coward)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hilton-honors/1826318-newest-updates-hilton-honors-t-cs-march-2017-a.html

"Hilton Honors members will earn Points on the cash portion of a Points & Money stay"

That's from the FT Hilton rep. I consider that (and my previous quote) authoritative communication from Hilton (an employee specifically tasked with communicating to social media).

FWIW I redeemed cash and points before 3/1... and got the 2K Every Day bonus. 😀

Pity nobody from Hilton cares to post on IF... 🙁

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Posted : March 2, 2017 3:10 am
NYCUA1K
(@nycua1k)

eponymous_coward, post: 2782152, member: 1812 wrote: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hilton-honors/1826318-newest-updates-hilton-honors-t-cs-march-2017-a.html

"Hilton Honors members will earn Points on the cash portion of a Points & Money stay"

That's from the FT Hilton rep. I consider that (and my previous quote) authoritative communication from Hilton (an employee specifically tasked with communicating to social media).

FWIW I redeemed cash and points before 3/1... and got the 2K Every Day bonus. 😀

Pity nobody from Hilton cares to post on IF... 🙁

I do not doubt that one gets 2K on award stays ('pure' or C+P), because that has always been the case with Hilton promos. Spend an eligible buck, literally, to have something on the folio and you earn promo points.

On the other hand, the notion that one would now earn points on the cash part of a C+P award is new and such a departure from the past that I am not sure it is not a misunderstanding, especially in view of the ambiguous statement on the issue in the FAQs...

That one bears watching closely and confirming with actual empirical evidence. It would be yuge...

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Posted : March 2, 2017 4:47 am
NYCUA1K
(@nycua1k)

Actually, having seen the announcement it on FT and noting that it was posted just three days ago (meaning long after the ambiguous FAQs answer) now makes me believe that the policy about earning points on the C part of C+P is for real and, thus, YUGE!

Thank you for passing on the info!

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Posted : March 2, 2017 5:07 am
NYCUA1K
(@nycua1k)

Actually, having seen the announcement it on FT and noting that it was posted just three days ago (meaning long after the ambiguous FAQs answer) now makes me believe that the policy about earning points on the C part of C+P is for real and, thus, YUGE!

Thank you for passing on the info!

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Posted : March 2, 2017 7:10 am
NYCUA1K
(@nycua1k)

Actually, having seen the announcement it on FT and noting that it was posted just three days ago (meaning long after the ambiguous FAQs answer) now makes me believe that the policy about earning points on the C part of C+P is for real and, thus, YUGE!

Thank you for passing on the info!

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Posted : March 2, 2017 7:13 am
PaulOnion
(@paulonion)
Silver

NYCUA1K in all honesty, it's not so much that HH & MR are thriving ( Honestly I can't say. I don't send either all that much biz) .

It's more that certain parts of the industry are going private.

Far from any of us to interfere with a fool and his/her $

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Posted : March 3, 2017 12:45 pm
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